'Assange case masks Wikileaks message'
Tue Jan 4, 2011 5:21PM
Press TV interview with Director of the Centre for Investigative Journalism, Gavin McFadyean, and activist Ciaron O'Reilly
Gavin McFadyean and Ciaron O'Reilly joined Press TV to offer their insights into the political agenda surrounding US bids to extradite Julian Assange.
The interview also touches on the plight of Bradley Manning, a US soldier who exposed US war crimes through Wikileaks and is now in a US military prison under reportedly torturous conditions.
Gavin McFadyean: Julian Assange became the subject of enormous media interest and not just from what he was saying; the messenger was becoming much more important than the message.
The message itself, however, is astonishing for people who've actually read it. I remember speaking in Washington a couple of weeks ago and 600 people were in the audience, and I asked how many people have actually read the Iraq war logs, and only two or three hands went up; but everybody knew about Julian Assange. It's a huge problem.
PressTV: It must be very frustrating for him because he has become the story and of course that isn't the aim of Wikileaks, is it?
Gavin McFadyean: Indeed. The actual Iraq war logs point to serious brutality and torture and killing charges against the Americans, some of which, even the most modest corners of which, were twice as bad as My Lai (massacre) during the Vietnam War.
The killing of Iraqi civilians at check points was twice as many people killed -- over the few years that the Americans were there -- than the wholesale massacre of a village in Vietnam.
PressTV: But there is a double standard in evidence; we've just heard about an American soldier who targeted random Afghan civilians getting a nine month sentence; this is compared to the eighty six years given to Dr. Aafia Siddiqui for allegedly shooting at American soldiers - There doesn't seem to be any comparison or balance.
Gavin McFadyean: Well, in April, Wikileaks released a film of an (US) Apache helicopter attack on civilians and journalists -- two Reuters employees were killed -- and a lot of civilians were mowed down including families in the buildings around the area.
Now they're celebrating this apparently in the United States and saying what a wonderful thing, broadcasting it with all the chortling and laughter from the crew machine gunning these people, it's apparently entirely OK.
PressTV: Let's get the Australian point of view now as after all, Julian Assange is an Aussie and we are joined by Ciaron O'Reilly with his views.
Ciaron O'Reilly, what sort of impact is the Julian case having with Australians? Are they looking at Britain and thinking what's going on there?
Ciaron O'Reilly: I think people are very distressed that it looks like a politically driven persecution, not just a prosecution of Julian. Kevin Rudd, the former prime minister until recently has come out strongly in favor of Julian's civil liberties and how they're being infringed here in Britain.
PressTV: You disarmed a B52 American bomber and went to jail for it. What about what all this means for civil disobedience and actions against power?
Ciaron O'Reilly: I'm from a pacifist movement, the 'Catholic Worker' in the US and we do these ploughshares actions - beating swords into ploughshares and we did that on the eve of the first Gulf War; we damaged a B52 and put it out of action; it was on 20 minute scramble alert. When they got to it, it didn't fly for two months.
PressTV: I also understand you are in the Wikileaks…
Ciaron O'Reilly: Yes, well I was arrested again at the beginning of this war I was in Ireland, where my father is from, and we broke into Shannon airport, which is a small airport on the west coast of Ireland, but most US troops that went to Iraq went through that airport, and we were able to do $2.5 million disarmament (they called it damage) to this warplane and send it back to Texas.
PressTV: But the reaction in the Irish courts was quite different to that of the American courts, wasn't it?
Ciaron O'Reilly: Yes. The first trial collapsed after six days after the judge acted illegally; the second trial collapsed after eleven days after we discovered that the judge was a personal friend of George Bush Jr., had been invited to both his inaugurations, and we had a fair trial the third time and we were unanimously acquitted.
PressTV: Do you think Julian (Assange) would have got better justice had he been put through the courts in Dublin?
Ciaron O'Reilly: I wouldn't guarantee that. What happened was then the US embassy stressed out following my acquittal and there were all these cables going back to (Washington) DC and they were exposed by Wikileaks, and in those cables, Irish ministers were making derogatory comments about their own criminal justice system; they're very sycophantic to the Americans.
PressTV: So if this case goes against him, which is totally disconnected from Wikileaks we're told - Is he going to get a fair trial in Sweden?
Ciaron O'Reilly: The fear is, that he will be extradited to the US. And Sweden historically during the Vietnam period was quite opposed to the American war in Vietnam. A lot of American resisters fled to Sweden and were given sanctuary there and the Swedish government has been quite left wing until recently -- now it's swung the other way and it's cooperating with the Americans.
PressTV: The Australian foreign minister seemed to come out, well not really in support of Julian Assange, but certainly kind of critical of the US -- Do you expect anything of the Australian government?
Ciaron O'Reilly: Mr. Rudd former prime minister, now the foreign minister, Julian Assange and myself all grew up in Queensland, Australia, and in the 70s and early 80s all civil rights were suspended in that state; that's why people like Julian and myself value free speech so much, I'm not sure what Kevin Rudd's agenda is in this.
PressTV: But he's not going to be happy is he if this case against Julian Assange in Sweden suddenly turns into an extradition hearing?
Ciaron O'Reilly: Well as we found out today, it's not a Swedish opposition to bail, it's a British one and it's obviously the Americans involved in that.
PressTV: When you've worked on so many campaigns over the years, we are of course forgetting that after all Julian Assange is the publisher of [Wikileaks files] -- What about Bradley Manning [US Army private accused of leaking to the data]?
Ciaron O'Reilly: He's over 200 days into his sentence now. He's rarely mentioned by the anti-war movement. I've done my best to generate solidarity for him. He's in a military prison, not a civilian one. He was originally detained in Iraq and then transferred to Kuwait; now he's in Quantico (Marine Corp base), Virginia. So I think unless we build an anti-war movement that could free him, he'll never get out of prison and he may die in there.
PressTV: What's happened to the anti-war movement in America, it was absolutely iconic and it defined the Vietnam years?
Ciaron O'Reilly: Well I think those who wage war have also learned how to market it at home and how to keep people disengaged -- the churches are quiet, the campuses are quiet, the media, the rock stars -- all these people who were mobilized in Vietnam.
They've (US) learned from their mistakes and they know how to market war. The soldiers themselves, there's actually more resistance coming from within the US military than from civil society.
There are many young men and women in jail now because they are refusing deployment and redeployment to Afghanistan, but they're invisible.
PressTV: Ciaron, thank you very much.
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