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Foreign meddling ripping Yemen apart: Analyst

Ex-Yemeni President Abdrabuh Mansur Hadi (R) meets Saudi envoy in Aden on February 28, 2015. © AFP

Press TV has conducted an interview with Professor Daoud Khairallah of Georgetown University and Professor Daniel Serwer of John Hopkins University on the current situation in Yemen and the impact of foreign intervention in the Arab country.

The following is an approximate transcript of the interview.

Press TV: Now the history of Yemen is marred by foreign interference. What about leading the Yemeni people to past scares by Saudi Arabia for example or even the West?

Khairallah: This is about this uprising is by Ansarullah and Houthis, but they are not alone. They feel they have a majority of the Yemeni people. They more or less represent the sentiment of the Yemenis and the desire to reform a system that was wrecked by corruption. The foreign interference that was deviating Yemen from what is in the best interest of Yemenis. So they wanted this uprising is basically motivated by a desire to have a healthy society, healthy country, independent country and autonomous country.

Press TV: Professor Serwer, the same question to you. At this time, how do you feel about the foreign interference that Yemenis are rejecting?

Serwer: I think there's foreign interference from both sides, quite clearly Iran has provided some supplies maybe some money also to the Houthis. So this is not a question of black and white and is not a question of what side is genuine. This is a situation in which there are in fact many sides because we have the presence of al-Qaeda, the presence of civil society forces and democracy forces in Yemen. This is a case of a good deal of chaos with the armed groups. For the moment, not so much controlling the situation this is controlling the evolution of the country and the evolution is in the direction of a wide range of civil war.

Press TV: Professor Serwer, if I may push you on that point, when it came to ousting of Ali Abdullah Saleh when that revolution occurred, it was the West and Saudis that pushed the one-man election which they said it was democratic but how can a one-man election really be democratic. Certainly it seems the Yemenis haven’t been satisfied ever since.

Serwer: Well, I don’t think that was a democratic election. Yemenis have been dissatisfied with the national dialogue. So that the Houthis are saying that their objective is to implement the results of national dialogue. So, I don’t think that the regional and international intervention is entirely bad. The effort now by the Houthis unfortunately even if it’s in favor of the results of the national dialogue is an armed effort to take over that country.

Press TV: Professor Khairallah, how do you feel about that? Do you think the Houthis are trying to take over the country, because many people say the Houthis have always insisted that they’re doing this for the country and they’re trying to be as inclusive as possible?

Khairallah: No, I feel and I know that the Houthis are not lonely. It’s true that they are in the forefront of this battle, but there is at least consent by the majority of the Yemenis. Yemenis, who have had the experience in working in the [Persian] Gulf areas. About two million of individuals or two million families who worked there, came back with the sentiment of being discriminated against, being looked down upon. There is a certain sentiment especially with respect to the Saudis. The Saudis have always felt that Yemen is their back yard and they can do whatever they want and they had an influence there. But at the same time, that is strange that the Saudi regime or the Saudi cultural ideology especially the religious version of Islam there has been mother of terrorism, all al-Qaeda and all derivatives including the Islamic State or ISIS or whatever you call it have the same ideological background and what is strange is that al-Qaeda there and its derivatives operating in Syria are getting support from everyone, from the [Persian] Gulf countries, from Turkey, from Israel, and even the US considers these as enemies or opponents. Those who are fighting effectively al-Qaeda and its derivatives and this is a little bit strange for countries who really feel that terrorism is probably the most serious threat to the international society at this time taking this position.

Press TV: Professor serwer, I want to point to you because it does seem kind of odd that the Houthis are spoken of in such negative terms. The narratives are quite negative in Western media but as professor Khairallah rightfully said they’re the ones fighting al-Qaeda seemingly somehow successfully, you know how they were able to do that?

Serwer: It’s interesting that the criteria by which you judge people should be very pro-American, since Americans have been fighting al-Qaeda and the Islamic State wherever it appears. Look Houthis have legitimate complaints. I think they weren’t treated internally well in the implementation of national dialogue rather their deal with those complaints with political means they decided to take up arms. They have been successful in taking up arms so far. I really don’t know what’s going to happen next, but it’s very unlikely to be good for democracy or for the Yemeni people. It’s like to be very chaotic, very violent and not a credit to those who today are praising the Houthis.

Press TV: Professor Serwer, I'd like to stay with you. When it comes to Saudi role in Yemen, we see the Saudis’ role for many years even during the revolution. It was said that Saleh was the Saudi Arabia’s man in Yemen and many people argue that Hadi is Saudi Arabia’s man in Yemen as well. So when I speak about the political process how would be possible for the Houthis to enter that knowing Hadi is a Saudi man.

Serwer: The Houthis were part of national dialogue process and were welcomed in to it as I am aware and to say that you know Saleh was a Saudi man and Hadi is a Saudi man is consistent. Now the fact of the matter is that Saudis helped along with the good part of the rest of the international community to undo Saleh and Hadi was intended as a transition figure. I think he made some big mistakes especially in the division of the country into inter district, some other things he did were perceived by the Houthis as unfair to them, but the notion of Houthis are simple fighting for everybody in Yemen, seems that If you believe I want to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge. The Houthis have their own interests, they have very few limits on how far will be able to project power and what I fear is devastating civil war with undertaking along sectarian lines is being the case of a number of countries in the Middle East. That will be very bad for Yemenis. It’s my hope that Houthis will see the limits and step back from what they had done that yet.

Press TV: Professor Khairallah, I want to ask you because something professor Serwer mentioned as what Western media mention that the Houthis have made a mistake. They should have stuck with the political process and not taken up arms to defend themselves.

Khairallah: I think the Houthis reflect a more or less national sentiment and the Houthis have not resorted to sectarian discourse what the Saudis do quite well and this probably the only discourse they have. Even Iran, we say Iran because it is supporting Houthis, Iraqi regime and whatever, they do not resort to sectarian discourse that is divisive that tears apart social fabric in Arab countries. What is strange is that societies and people who think of being democratic and product of democratic cultures and was not, when they realize what this sectarian discourse is doing and realize what they’re producing in terms of terrorist groups and continue to look at it just with a blind eye, it is obvious that the Saudis and the [Persian] Gulf countries and the US at the top of the group have helped in Syria, in Iraq, in Yemen, in Libya and in everywhere they have been behind either directly or indirectly all these groups have resorted to arm and brought chaos to these countries. This is inevitably inconceivable to think that countries like our country like the US is unable to predict that this will be the case and it will let these forces out of whatever.

Press TV: Professor Serwer, I’m wondering at this time, when it comes to the Saudi issue and how may it react or the Persian Gulf’s Arab countries as a whole. How do you think they will react, they will get involved, how the US will see all this?

Serwer: I really have my doubts the Saudis will become directly involved militarily. I have no inside information, but it seems to me obvious that this could be a quagmire or difficult place to get out of and frankly there are surrogates inside Yemen who don’t like the Houthis to happily take system from Saudi Arabia and fight the Houthis, but I want to go back to your question about sectarianism because everybody denies being sectarian for the fact of the matter. Iran and Saudi Arabia are now engaged in proxy wars in a number of Middle Eastern countries and it’s not in interest of neither of them to continue in that direction. What you can find in the United State is that there’s very little inclination to get aligned either with Sunnis or with Shia in this proxy wars. American concern is principle to suppress terrorist groups in particular al-Qaeda and the Islamic State which both thoughts represent threats to the United State but constant implication that the United States is somehow tolerating and encouraging even the Islamic State is complete nonsense and people who spread that are essentially telling falsehoods.

Press TV: I’m wondering when you speak about sectarianism as professor Khairallah rightly pointed out no such sectarian sentiments have ever seen by the Houthis but in fact we’ve seen them by the Saudis on a very regular basis not just it comes to Yemen but when it comes to Bahrain too. Yet the Western media seem to love the narrative that the sectarianism divided in rule that many Muslims called.

Serwer: You don’t have the sectarian discourse to be a sectarian and the most anti-sectarian discourse in Iraq for example is held by Sunnis who deny the sectarianism is important in Iraq that the Shia was mistreated. The fact of the matter is that people in a violent situation retreat to identity politics as the means of protection. The question is what encourages that retreat to identity politics and certainly the engagement of Iran in supporting Shia militias in Iraq who engaged with Iran in supporting President Bashar al-Assad in Syria, again the engagement of Iran in supporting the Houthis is encouraging the division of the Middle Eastern countries along sectarian lines.

Press TV: Professor Khairallah do you have a response to that about the sectarianism especially in the context of Yemen?

Khairallah: There was a determined policy to weaken the societies at least in the Middle East, a society that Israel thought would constitute a threat to it. And weakening them was through destroying an Arab nationalist discourse that became the issue of Iraq for getting rid of Saddam, getting rid of Assad, getting rid of a nationalist as opposed to the sectarian discourse. We have seen whenever the US went to Iraq what has the new Iraq now if it did anything, it has established and confirmed the foundation of a sectarian system that’s why we see now a Shia, a Sunni and we see this animosity. Syria has never had and still the regime you can accuse them of whatever you want of being sectarian. It has no interest of being sectarian, yet you see the US and all its friends including Saudi Arabia and all its allies in the Middle East against this regime and top of the list is Israel who is supporting al-Nusra which is the only al-Qaeda derivative and directly links to al-Qaeda. To say that the US didn’t do that and had nothing to do with it, it stretches the imagination. The US know or must have known and should know that the sectarian policy is a negation of a modern national state and lebanization of Iraq or creating sectarian system in Iraq has led to that. In Syria all the groups that have been amortized by religious consent and they are carrying arms whether they are called al-Nusra, ISIS, Daesh, Jaish-ul-Islam, whatever they are descendent groups and their ideology are coming from Saudi Arabia basically. And those who are fighting, those who are the sources of trouble, those who are generating now movements for terrorism that go beyond the Middle East and are a threat to the entire world they have the same foundation.

ABN/GHN


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